Dead at 56 - was it worth it?

[markkw]

Just curious about some things and I'll say right up front that I never cared for either the business or political practices of Steve Jobs.

Just read an article related to the Jobs book release coming on Monday and I'm curious to know if I'm just desensitized to this from seeing so much of it among other alleged "successful" people or what?

Jobs: "I will spend my last dying breath if I need to, and I will spend every penny of Apple's $40 billion in the bank, to right this wrong," Jobs said. "I'm going to destroy Android, because it's a stolen product. I'm willing to go thermonuclear war on this."

Like Apple didn't put the screws to Adobe and about two dozen other companies and untold numbers of individuals along the way by outright theft? Funny there's no mention of all the long-distance telephone service theft Jobs created with his phone boxes. Kettle calling the pot black.

Jobs: "Jobs calls the crop of executives brought in to run Apple after his ouster in 1985 "corrupt people" with "corrupt values" who cared only about making money."

Was it not Jobs himself who stopped every bit of Apple's donations to charities. Is not Apple under Jobs control that is responsible for moving production to China where three of the plants manufacturing Apple products are known to be polluting to the point of causing deaths of Chinese people, mostly children. Was it not on Jobs watch that the iphone could not be activated or sync'ed without having to use a Mac - absolutely intention design characteristic making one product dependent on another purely for the purpose of turning more profit. Was it not on Jobs watch that Apple required the use of cloud servers thus pushing consumers to be at the constant mercy of the company rather than having the independent option of on-site storage? Adn, breaking news today, someone finally figured out that cloud storage is not at all secure despite the sales hype campaign Apple is running to the contrary.

"The book says Jobs gave up Christianity at age 13 when he saw starving children on the cover of Life magazine. He asked whether his Sunday school pastor knew what would happen to them." - I suppose Jobs forgot all about those starving children while his profit-driven Chinese plants are poisoning children to death?

Pardon me for pointing out the obvious but the hypocrisy of Steve Jobs is overwhelming. Also pardon me for pointing out the other obvious fact that Apple wouldn't even be around today if not for Microsoft. So while Jobs vowed to destroy Google to his death bed, now that he's dead at 56 - was it worth it? Quit being a Christian because of starving children but goes to the grave murdering children in the name of profit - was it worth it?

[Ray]

You need to add a like button to this forum.

[franz]

Jobs was Jobs Mark, plain & simple. He wasn't the only one manufacturing Blue Boxes in the 60s, I can think of one from RIT who got BUSTED and used his smarts to get Ma Bell to let him off the hook and save his ass from the Feds in exchange for the technology that made all the Blue Boxes worthless.

We've lived in strange times since the 60s, mayhaps not all that strange in terms of business when compared to the Railroad Barons and the oil barons, possibly just a different place on the pages of history. In a lot of ways I see Jobs comparable to Rockefeller a man pioneering a path where others never before ventured. Jobs went places where rules didn't yet exist, so he made his own. Such is the nature of business.

Jobs created a whole new world, and convinced people they needed to be part of it. He never convinced me after a week of experience with an Apple 2E. He didn't force anyone to follow him, he just convinced people they needed to. Hell Master Card did the same thing.

I read last week that Jobs was beyond the ability of any system to measure his IQ. I've known similar people some I wondered what would happen when the time came that they tipped or flipped. One I knew for 25 years, brilliant kid, rarely spoke more than 10 words to anyone in a given day, wife & 2 kids dropped dead one afternoon when his aorta ruptured. He was 42. Another even more brilliant who could do anything from be a paramedic to rebuild an engine decided one day he wasn't happy as a man and began the process to become female. People scrambled to warn me to be careful what I did and said. Honestly he was still the same kid I watched grow up, I figured if he wanted or needed to he'd explain the conversion to me, if not it really didn't effect me.

People are going to do what they are going to do, and it's neither my task to judge or correct them.

You mention Jobs cutting charity off. As I heard it Apple was loosing money at the time, and Jobs had a primary duty to keep Apple running. Charity in this country has become a very big and very nasty business. I cut off damn near every charity myself. I don't even like the concept of charity donation being tax deductable, that ain't charity, it's a tax dodge.

Jobs was Jobs. Could he have built Apple products in the US and sold them competitively? I doubt it. Union and Government have chased production to China and a dozen other places, not corporate executives. Lets call it like it is.

[markkw]

I am calling it like it is - if you'll recall, when Apple started making billions and could have utilized the charitable deductions, Jobs still refused and chose other tax-dodging options ... so much for the starving children ... at least the starving ones Apple's Chinese factories weren't murdering with pollution.

Jobs could very well have produced the Apple in the USA and been competitive but he "chose" the option of higher profits by using slave and near-slave Chinese labor while using sales hype to bilk American consumers out of more money and thus generating even higher profit margins. Point being is that Jobs was nothing more or less than the typical "do as I say, not as I do" liberal. One must look at the whole picture to grasp the context - he complained about starving children yet did nothing about it while maintaining that someone else should do something about it. He fired people for simple mistakes yet did not hold himself to the same standards he expected of others. He stole ideas, software, hardware and services from everyone else yet when there was a possibility that the tables were turned, he went off like a typical eccentric having a total conniption fit. Jobs constantly claimed he wanted to build the "best possible product" yet went forward using sales hype to push absolute crap onto the market that he knew was absolute crap and thus screwing his customers purely to generate profits. Jobs, along with many others, knew full well the security issues associated with cloud servers yet Jobs chose to push the sales hype of an inferior product and yet again putting the screws to his customers. When the security breech was known, how much did Apple, at Jobs direction, spend to cover it up and continue lying to their customers?

Go back to Jobs in the early days, remember him pushing the sales hype on his IBM mainframe octal conversion software ... sure, the software worked perfectly but are you aware that Jobs stole that software from a private programmer and when threatened with a lawsuit, Jobs used Apple's deep pockets to destroy the life of the guy who wrote program rather than honor the contract agreement. Jobs did the same thing with the advanced graphics card developed by another private individual working under contract, Jobs reached into those deep pockets and destroyed that guy's life too rather than honor the contract agreement. These are not examples of a shrewd businessman, they are nothing more than the selfish actions of a common thief.

Back to the China thing, again, one can put the spin on that it was a "smart business decision" if one chooses to look at it through rose colored glasses ... truth be known, Jobs chose those particular Chinese companies based on their history of cutting costs by using indentured servant, child and slave labor as well as their history of further cutting costs by illegally dumping toxic waste. The choice was purely profit based - damn basic human rights; damn ethical and moral responsibility.

One need not play the roll of judge but one also cannot ignore the facts. Point to examples of immoral and unethical businessmen as an example saying "it's just business" is not within the limits of my acceptance. One can point to any number of what some call "successful businessmen" yet one must not ignore the facts of corruption, immorality, theft and complete lack of acceptable ethics before jumping the gun and claiming they were truly "successful" and not simply "rich". Rockefeller, Fairchild, Barrett, Carnegie, Vanderbilt, Schwab, Harriman, Cocker, Flagler, Mellon, Fisk, Merkel, Richardson, Astor are but just a few of the "rich" for which the facts show the generation of their riches came from their unethical, immoral and illegal actions rather than their abilities to be honorable businessmen. On another list we find the names Sinan, Stalin, Luciano, Capone, Barrow, Parker, James, Nelson, Bugler and the list goes on ... they were all "rich" and got their money by doing things that were illegal, immoral and unethical yet somehow those on the second list are not celebrated as "shrewd businessmen" but rather they are consider "criminals" ........ how does one equate the same actions to two completely different categories? How can one claim that Capone is a criminal for not paying taxes for the purposes of his own personal gain is any different than Carnegie not paying taxes for his own personal gain? How can one claim that Barrow murdering someone with a gun while taking their money or Stalin using slave labor for his own personal gain is any different than Apple using slave labor and murdering Chinese people with toxic chemicals?

Sorry if these comparisons "offend" anyone but I truly do not see the difference between immoral, unethical, murdering "criminals" and immoral, unethical, murdering "rich businessmen".

[franz]

Things are what they are Mark, and my experience says most rich men are corrupt. Some like Rockefeller, Carnage & Melon have a talent for running ahead of the law.

People too are who they are. Capone saw a need and filled it, and did business as business was done in his climate. You look a little deeper and you also find Capone ran one hell of a charitable wing of his business feeding the hungry.

I don't much like associating with people, much rather spend time with my dog. He's a lot more honest.

[markkw]

Oct 22, 2011 11:31:22 GMT -5 franz said:

I don't much like associating with people, much rather spend time with my dog. He's a lot more honest.

Ain't that the truth!