Straight Razor Restorations

[todd]

Good evening guys. It has been a long time since I posted. I see tech4, Mark, and some of the old gang are still around. God bless you all. I am still making sparks at the university. Haven't electrocuted myself yet.

Hey chaps, I have been into traditional wet shaving for at least the last eight years. Badger hair brushes, good English shave creams and soaps, double edge razors, etc. You name it, we shave geeks obsess over it at times. I really wanted to use the cutthroat razors from the beginning but a few things held me back. They definitely have a learning curve. You do not just grab a new razor and go to town.

First of all I learned you really do not have a razor capable of shaving you comfortably when you buy a new one. They are simply not shave ready. You need to properly hone and strop them. This is not exactly rocket science but it has a learning curve too. I am finally getting into them and even tried my hand at a bit of blade restoration. I posted some photos over at Badger and Blade. This is huge web site for everything shaving. You will learn more about it there than you can absorb! Anyway, there is a good section there for straight razor shaving and restoration as well. I will include a link to the ones I have started. I am sending two of them out for professional honing this week. I hope it is okay to post links to the other site. If it is no no, just nuke it Mark. I will try to find a way to host the photos somewhere and then post them here.

I just figured tool nuts would appreciate the hands on nature of this sort of thing. And Mark, I am going to need your help with some polishing compound information as well. I used a Black and Decker RTX rotary tool with Dico compounds after hand sanding the blades with a progression of wet/dry sandpaper from 400 to 1500 grit. It leaves a near mirror polish. Hope you guys enjoy and who knows? Maybe some day you will take up the straight razor yourself!

Todd

Fist post with photos of unrestored razors
badgerandblade.com/vb/showthread.php/240264-Bagged-A-Frederick-Reynolds-8-8-amp-Peters-Brothers-6-8-For-30!

Second post with sanded and polished raozrs. BTW, the Peters Brothers in the photo is now polished and ready for honing. Will try to get a photo up soon.
badgerandblade.com/vb/showthread.php/241354-First-Restoration-Attempt-Frederick-Reynolds-8-8

[markkw]

T4,

That looks great and don't tell me you didn't put a lot of work into them because I know what it takes. If I'd had known you were into them, I'd have sent you a razor & strop kit I picked up at an auction.

[ral]

Looks good and it's nice to see people who appreciate the past enough to preserve it.
R.A.L.

[todd]

Thanks for the nice replies. And yes, hand sanding the blades is a LOT of work. I start off with 3M 400 wet/dry and then work my way through 600, 800, 1000, 1500, and sometimes 2000 grit. It leaves the blades pretty shiny but I think the polishing compounds works the best magic.

I have been using the Dico compounds because they work with the el cheapo white felt wheels used by rotary tools. I am not sure what the actual grit of these compounds are. The E5 is where I start and it is listed as emery. Then the SCR(stainless). Then JR1(jewelers rouge). Finally WR1(white rouge). Dico lists their products in groups. The E5, SCR, and JR1 are listed in that order for polishing ferrous metals. The WR1 is actually listed for non ferrous material but seems to add luster to the razors.

Mark, I know you are the metal fab guy around here so do you have an opinion about some of these compounds? I see "greaseless" compounds mentioned a lot on the razor forums and the lads there seem to treat them like a paste form of sandpaper for dressing a cloth wheel. Videos of them in use show plenty of sparks( very fine sparks) when they are dressing out an old cutthroat. Then they go to other compounds for polishing. I am not well versed in this stuff and would like to know more. You have to watch the heat. You do not want to get any razor hot enough you do not want to touch it. What most do is keep a jar of cool water nearby and if you feel the blade warming up, dunk it in and cool it. Just don't wait till it is burning your fingers! This is mostly and issue with the greaseless compounds and large bench mounted buffers at 1725 rpm and up. I personally would never use a buffer higher in rpm than that. In fact, years ago you could find bench mount grinder/buffer motors with speeds around 1125 rpm. I am not sure if they are available. I use the small rotary tools but man would I love to have a Foredom flex shaft tool.

The cutthroats are a lot of fun and the man I sent mine to received them today and notified me just a bit ago that he had them honed and even repinned one of the scales for me. Talk about fast. He is sending them back tomorrow. If I can get some more photos hosted up somewhere I will post them so you guys can inspect the work. The biggest issue with straights is not restoring them. It is properly setting a new bevel on the edge and honing them to shave ready use. You can get hones up to 30k if you want to spend the money but most guys stop at 12k and use bench strops with diamond or chromium oxide pastes to finalise the edge. Wish me luck guys. Hopefully by Monday I will be shaving the proper way again!

Todd

[markkw]

T,

I sell the low-grease compounds because they're the best of both worlds. Greaseless compounds were developed mostly for closed circuit industrial machines and applications where they want to go right from polish to a coating or plating operation without having the extra degreasing step - they're expensive and don't last long because there's no grease to help keep them on the wheel so you're looking at a 75%+ loss rate. The closed machines use air to recirculate the compound much like a sand blast cabinet. High-grease compounds are made for non-ferrous precious metals and some very hard synthetic materials. Low grease are good for ferrous metals and general all-around work. I use mine on brass, bronze, aluminum, copper, pewter, steel, stainless steel, bone, horn, ect... different compounds for the application but all the same low-grease mixture. Keeping the heat out is important no matter what you're buffing, that's why the low-grease compound is more user-friendly too, the lubrication helps keep the heat down (also helps keep from getting edge-cuts) You're going to get heat no matter what process you use so keeping a coolant handy is always a plus. BTW, it's summer sale time, I'll be getting a sale price on my compounds this week, I'll post them when I get the email.

The treated yellow hard muslin buffs are very agressive, so much so that I don't normally stock them anymore, I just order as needed for one of my clients. I prefer the full-sewn natural cotton muslin wheels for most everything and for the insane cost of loose sewn buffs, if I need one I just pull a row of stitching out of the full-sewn because the couple minutes of time isn't worth a $12-21 price difference to me. When it comes to buffs, it's not the RPM you need to worry about, it's the surface velocity in feet per minute based on the diameter. A 6" buff turning at 1750 RPM gives an SFM of 2749 while a 3" turning at the same 1750 RPM gives 1374 SFM. My bench buffer is belt-driven and takes up to 12" diameter buffs, fixed speed at 1645 RPM because it's a great general purpose machine the way it is, I use 4", 6" & 8" buffs on it.

This here is my go-to when I'm doing smaller items or something special. It's a variable speed (1500-3000 no-load) 7" polisher I sell for $47.50 and it comes with a 7" disc & wool bonnet. It has a standard 5/8"-11 shaft, I made an adapter to 1/2"-20 to fit a standard 1/2" drill chuck. I also made a little mount that attaches to the head so I can just clamp it in the vise when needed. The speed is set with a dial so it stays where you set it, put whatever mounted buff, Rolok, mushroom scuff, ect. you want in the chuck and away you go. There's several nice things about doing it this way, first is the added working room because there's nothing in the way of the tool so you can work at all kinds of odd angles and contact direction. The second thing is that the RPM will drop a little as you increase the load so you can get in and cut then back off the pressure and go right to polish mode without having to stop and adjust the speed. With the drill chuck, changing tools is fast & easy too - that's important to me because I often go from a Rolok flap disc to a non-woven abrasive disc then right to bob or buff.


This is the generic flex shaft grinder I carry, they're going on sale later this week for $99.99, normally they're $130. I haven't used one personally so I can't tell you anything about them, I just don't have enough need to justify having it. I sold a few and no complaints but I don't have feedback from other either.

[todd]

Hey Mark. Sorry for the late reply. Thank you for the great information about the compounds. Sounds like the low grease type is perfect for straight razor polishing. I will have to check out your website.

BTW, I just got two of the razors back from a professional honer in Tennessee. They shave nicely and the new red scales on the Philip Dotzert look smashing. The 6/8 Peters Brothers is what I am shaving with and it works WELL. The chap even polished the horn scales a bit for me and they show some nice character now. If I can manage to take some decent photos I will post the up.

Todd

[todd]

Hey Mark. Just a couple more questions for clarity's sake. If I understand things correctly, the greaseless compounds are essentially like making a sandpaper coating on the buffs. Yes/no? The videos I have watched clearly show sparks flying so I assume it is so. Are the low grease compounds similar?

I am not sure what the Dico compounds are that I used. The Dremel felt buffs certainly threw no sparks but I was also intentionally using them on the slowest speed setting. I was doing it to keep temps low. I never got the blades hot enough to feel uncomfortable but to take no chances a glass of cool water was kept at hand for dunking. If the blades got even a little warm to the feel I dunked them for twenty seconds or so and all was well. It worked a treat for me. Thanks for all your help.

Todd

[tech4]

Hi Todd, glad to hear you are still creating the sparks. I remember the barber sharping and honing his straight razor. My Dad had a childhood friend that was a barber. Dad would go to his shop every morning before work for a shave. I had an uncle that always shaved with a straight razor that belonged to my grandfather. I think my cousin still has the razor. I notice the barbers today use a cheap replaceable blade. I understand the state law because of AIDS will not allow them to use a straight razor.

[todd]

High tech. Great to hear from you! Yeah, people kind of look at you sideways when you tell them you shave with a cutthroat razor. Yet I can tell you it is NOT dangerous if you pay attention and are willing to go through a learning curve. I am getting there. I am still a novice with them but years and years of shaving with a double edge razor(superior to ANY cartridge in my estimation) helped me better understand how to handle a straight razor. Pressure, or more like no pressure on the cutting edge is the secret. Well, that and a properly honed razor!

I was under the impression that non-disposable razors were verboten for barbers as well. Truth is, most state barber boards have no such restrictions on barbers. It is a sad state of the tonsorial trade today that most barbers are too lazy or uninterested to keep up with the practice. There may be other factors as well. It may be an insurance issue as well. Cost may go up with shaving services but I suspect it is not limited to open edge razors. And fears of complaints over sanitation. I don't know though. Barbicide and particularly barbicide + will kill about anything. I soaked some of my razors in Hydrocide(another brand) and it took rust off the blades! Anyway, good to hear from you and I am glad to hear there are members of your family who kept the tradition alive. It really is the only way to shave for me.

Todd

[todd]

Another defense of the barber trade vs wet shaves is time. It takes time to do a proper shave. It is now more a luxury and they have to charge accordingly. There are a number of shops bringing it back.

Todd

[markkw]

If I understand things correctly, the greaseless compounds are essentially like making a sandpaper coating on the buffs.

Yes, in a sort-of way because they don't tend to stick to the buff very well which is why most are used in recirculating closed-loop systems. The low-grease compounds will also remove metal but rarely will you see sparks - any "cutting" compound will remove metal, it's only the "non-cutting polish" compounds that do not readily remove any of the base metal, you'll still possible loose a little but not as much as with a cutting compound. Now, the "cutting compound" should not be confused with what's known as "making the cut" or "the cut of the compound" - either of these terms can be effectively applied to both cutting and non-cutting compounds as it has to do with the manner in how the work is moved over the buff. Much like painting where you'll "cut-in" and "cross-lap cut" which describes the motion of the brush or how the paint is moved by the brush and doesn't mean cutting the work material with the paint brush. Isn't our language wonderful? LOL

If you use the low-grease high-cut compound like gray or black, you're going to still remove a lot of metal from the work but you won't see any sparks simply because the grease is acting as a lubricant and coolant whereas the greaseless compounds are nothing more than the dry abrasive with some type of binder added to hold it into a stick form.

You don't have to worry about heat until it's blistering the meat off your paws, then you've got another 300-400°F to go higher before it starts having a negative effect on the temper of the steel. What you have to watch is that the knife edge will heat well beyond that which you're feeling in the spine of the blade so there's nothing wrong with keeping things cool.

[todd]

Thanks Mark. Superb information. Keep us posted on the buffs and compounds when you get the prices.

Todd

[garystewart]

I can't understand , with all of today's modern stuff, why would somebody wish to resort to old, obsolete, out-dated antiques to get the job done! I would have posted my objections sooner, but I was out groundhog hunting with my muzzleloader and I got the Model A Ford a little muddy, so I had 2 things to clean.

[markkw]

Aug 11, 2011 20:31:23 GMT -5 garystewart said:

I can't understand , with all of today's modern stuff, why would somebody wish to resort to old, obsolete, out-dated antiques to get the job done! I would have posted my objections sooner, but I was out groundhog hunting with my muzzleloader and I got the Model A Ford a little muddy, so I had 2 things to clean.

;D ;D ;D ;D

[markkw]

Aug 9, 2011 16:52:08 GMT -5 todd said:

Thanks Mark. Superb information. Keep us posted on the buffs and compounds when you get the prices.

Todd

I started a new topic on the compound & buffs